EXCLUSIVE: Kevin Pietersen discusses the Ashes with Nasser Hussain
EXCLUSIVE: Kevin Pietersen was built for ‘Bazball’ but he tells Mail Sport’s Nasser Hussain that Ben Stokes was wrong to declare at Edgbaston and why England should reign it in for rest of the Ashes
- Kevin Pietersen is loving England’s new style ahead of the second Ashes test
- But the ex-England star believes Ben Stokes was wrong to declare at Edgbaston
- Pietersen sat down with Mail Sport’s Nasser Hussain to discuss the Ashes series
If any past player was built for Bazball, it was Kevin Pietersen. The way he fearlessly took the attack to Australia on his debut Test series in 2005 was a blueprint for how England now bat under Ben Stokes and Brendon McCullum.
Pietersen, 42, won the Ashes four times and played 104 Tests and is England’s third-highest run-scorer across all three formats.
But numbers only tell part of the story when it comes to the maverick South African-born batsman, who was ahead of his time in both the way he played – including inventing the switch hit – and the way he championed the IPL upon its inception.
Mail Sport’s Nasser Hussain spoke to Pietersen ahead of the second Ashes test that gets underway at Lord’s on June 28.
Kevin Pietersen (left) sat down with Mail Sport’s Nasser Hussain (right) to discuss the ongoing Ashes series
NASSER: Kev, you were always a positive cricketer as you showed in 2005 when you took on Glenn McGrath and Shane Warne. How much are you enjoying the cricket you are watching from this England side under Stokes and McCullum?
KEVIN: Yeah, I like it. It’s different. It’s high intensity. I was a real positive player and maybe I was reckless on a couple of occasions. But the enjoyment factor from the fans’ perspective is something that I acknowledged and I think this team is acknowledging.
We are at a time where Test cricket needs something to turn itself around because there is so much competition. But I am answering this slowly because I am still not 100 per cent sure…
NASSER: What are you not sure about? The declaration on the first night? You wouldn’t have done that, would you?
KEVIN: No, I would never have declared. Because against Australia, first day of the Ashes, 393, thinking you’ve got enough on a flat wicket…
There was almost method in my madness. The way that I played, I wasn’t looking to throw the game away. I was looking to get the score going. I was looking to win. I’m just not 100 per cent convinced yet in how extremely positive this approach actually is.
NASSER: One thing you said the other day struck me. You said you like ‘the support’. We are not in the dressing room, but it seems that when someone goes in there, they are not rolling their eyes or tutting or whispering in a corner. They seem to be getting support from their captain and coach, even if they make a mistake.
KEVIN: I think that is a big thing for an individual. We both played in eras where if you got caught at cover having a flash, or caught at deep square leg, you got into a lot of trouble. That doesn’t seem to be the case here. And I think that’s how you get the best out of an individual.
Pietersen wasn’t in favour of Ben Stokes’ (pictured) decision to declare during England’s first innings at Edgbaston
Former England star Pietersen (left) believes players are being the opportunity to go on and be great in the national team
I was told by Clive Rice in 2000 in Nottingham, having come from South Africa, in and out of a turbulent situation there, that I was going to bat at six and going to bowl off-spin the whole season. I was dumbfounded. I was like, ‘How can that actually happen? How can you guarantee me to bat at six and to bowl off-spin?’.
And it was my fault if I messed up the opportunity. I think that’s exactly what these guys are doing at the moment. They are giving the players the opportunity to go and either be great or hang themselves. What we are seeing is the transformation of a couple of players.
NASSER: In 2005, you came to Edgbaston 1-0 down, you having smashed McGrath at Lord’s. England scored 407 on day one of the second Test. Exactly the same number of runs were scored on day one of the first Test at Edgbaston here. Do you see similarities in what Michael Vaughan did then, between Lord’s and Edgbaston, to what Stokes and McCullum are doing? What did Vaughan say to you?
KEVIN: That was after a horror defeat at Lord’s where it was old England, same stuff. Like your era! Scar tissue. It was Duncan Fletcher that said, ‘I don’t want to this happen again’, and Michael Vaughan also said, ‘Guys, I don’t want this to happen again, we have to fight fire with fire’.
Pietersen has been scrutinising England’s approach heading into the second Test
We did it in the one-day series just before that. We were quite aggressive in our approach. So there was a little bit of something about the team that thought, ‘There is more to us, we can actually try and match them, don’t just capitulate’.
So I can see the similarities for sure. But we came off the back of a horrific loss at Lord’s. Whereas England came into Edgbaston with 11 wins from 13.
My issue in this particular series is that it is an Ashes series. If we were playing against New Zealand or South Africa or India, it doesn’t mean as much to the fan as an Ashes series.
NASSER: But isn’t that the point of what they are trying to do? Their point is that the worst thing a captain can say is, ‘Do you know how important this is? This is the Ashes’. That immediately puts pressure on them. They are saying, ‘Just go and carry on as if it is another game of cricket’.
KEVIN: And they are just carrying on like it is another game of cricket. I am talking about the way that they play. Not about the temperament and the mindset. Just the way that they play. And in particular, that declaration on day one.
I am still a bit dumbfounded by it. And I know, deep down, you’re also dumfounded by it. As much as you might look at me with a smile on your face and say, ‘Oh, it’s the best thing that’s happened’, you know. 393 against the Aussies on day one of an Ashes Test match, you know. You love Rob Key, so you are going to defend it.
NASSER: No, I hate Rob Key with a vengeance! I’d happily be the first person to say, ‘Rob Key out’! But I also know that’s how they have played in the last 13 games and it’s brought them success. What do you think of Stokes? Stokes the person, Stokes the player, Stokes the captain?
KEVIN: I have always defended Ben Stokes. I remember when he came and played for the Melbourne Renegades and I was playing for the Stars. We sat down in Melbourne when he was going through a bit of a tough time. I was with his late father as well and I said to him, ‘I cannot believe that they are not playing you’.
Pietersen (left) admitted that he has always been a big fan of England captain Stokes (right)
During his prime years Pietersen was one of the world’s best batsmen and added potency to England’s set-up
So I think he is a tremendous cricketer and I think he’s got a very good cricket brain and I think he’s been ably assisted by McCullum, who has got a very good cricket brain.
I love the positivity. But it’s just this series, in particular, that I still need to get my head around. I actually walked up to McCullum on the Saturday and said, ‘Please explain this to me because I don’t understand it’. I have done that my whole career. I gave you a spray in Australia in 2006. I was like, ‘Dude what are you saying and why are you saying this?’.
NASSER: Because I said in the paper…
KEVIN: That I was s***!
NASSER: No, I didn’t at all. I said something like you didn’t want to move from No5. I’ve always thought your great players come in three or four and I’ve always viewed you as a great player.
Pietersen (left) told Hussain (right) that he will always be most grateful to the ECB for the chances he was given in Test matches
I remember you in Canberra pointing at me saying, ‘What have you written? You think I don’t want to move from five? You think I am bottling it?’. That is what I like about you. You speak your mind and you are speaking your mind on this team.
KEVIN: I just want to understand stuff. I say to my kids, ‘If you don’t know something, ask a question’. I don’t know some of the simplest things. I’m not the smartest bloke in the room. It’s just about understanding the dynamic. But also, I understand the magnitude, and you understand the magnitude of playing for England against Australia.
NASSER: Absolutely. And that’s my next question. You said in a documentary with me that you only really understood the magnitude of it at the Oval when you picked up the paper and you were on the front page, and virtually every news channel was about the Ashes. Let’s hope this series goes like 2005. If it does, what advice would you give to the players to be able to cope with that attention?
KEVIN: The coping mechanism is already instilled in them because they are living in a different world now. Anybody with a mobile phone is a journalist. These guys are so much under the microscope that they can’t really get away with doing anything.
NASSER: But coping with the pressure, do you have to try and switch off? Did you try and switch off in 2005?
Pietersen believes England’s Ashes win in 2005 changed cricket in the country
KEVIN: At that time, I was 25. It was the bright lights. We were having so much fun. And actually cricket changed. These guys are famous.
These guys do walk around and get recognised. In 2005, there wasn’t much of that for cricketers. They have that. They almost live that lifestyle now. Will winning this Ashes series change their lives? I don’t think it will.
NASSER: Did it change your life?
KEVIN: It changed cricket in this country. It’s not about me, it’s about cricket, and there was a huge change. A lot started to happen and cricket started to get recognised more and that recognition has happened now for 18 years.
NASSER: Is there any bit of you that thinks, ‘I told you so?’. What you see has happened to the game now in the last 10 years, to what you were trying to do back then. Has there been parts of you in that decade that’s thought, ‘I was a little bit ahead of the curve there, lads, you didn’t let me go, have you seen what’s happened to the game?’.
KEVIN: I did a podcast with somebody last week and I said, ‘You’re asking me that question because you know the answer’. Somebody said the other day, ‘You’re always smiling’. I said, ‘I had a s*** time for a number of years and all I want to do is enjoy my life’. I live a very peaceful life and I just want to be happy. The last thing I want to do now is start spraying people and bringing up all the nonsense from a while ago.
But what I am buzzing about is that the players have those opportunities now and they are loving it. I love just being around that positive culture. From Moeen Ali being told he has got a pink ticket to turn up here at the Ashes and if he doesn’t like it, just go away and don’t play again. I mean, crikey. Imagine playing in that environment.
NASSER: I sense that you love what you are seeing this week and you still love Test cricket. Everyone is saying Test cricket is dying. Do you worry about the future of the game?
KP was one of the star players during England’s mesmerising Ashes series win in 2005
Pietersen gave a glowing review of England batsman Harry Brook (left) and labelled him as a ‘360 player’
KEVIN: I love Test cricket. I said that to my son the other day. Somebody asked me about T20, I said, ‘I am the Test match guy’. But I am not stupid enough to know that private equity is starting to make a play in the world of sport.
Each sportsman is a business. You have 22 businesses downstairs that are playing against each other right now. And they’ve got to maximise it. Because I know what they did to me.
I was pretty good and they still (gestures slitting his throat), ‘See you later, mate’. The pen is mightier than the sword. When they go after you, they can destroy you and they can finish you. So the 22 business downstairs need to make hay while the sun shines. I will support them until the cows come home.
Pietersen (left) played 104 Test matches for England
NASSER: And if you came over as a young player from South Africa to Notts now, would you want to play every format or would you only want to play white-ball cricket because that’s where the money is?
KEVIN: It’s a difficult question because it wasn’t available then. And I don’t know how to answer it because I loved Test cricket, I played over 100 Test matches and I think that is my greatest achievement.
Forget money, forget the IPL, forget the Blast, forget Nottinghamshire, Hampshire. Any form of cricket that I played, the greatest thing that I was lucky to have done – and for that I will be eternally grateful to the ECB – is playing 100 Test matches. That for me is everything.
NASSER: One lad I know who has caught your eye is Harry Brook. What do you like about him?
KEVIN: He’s a 360 player. He hits the ball in unconventional areas but also conventional areas. It was the first Hundred game that I did up at Headingley. I think we may have been working together on that game. I saw this guy come out and hit it from extra cover, all the way around to square leg.
I tweeted that day that this guy will make it, that he is a proper player and he will be a superstar. He didn’t have the best IPL. He got found out a little bit. But that hundred he scored in the IPL was special and some of the innings that he has played already for England are very special.
NASSER: And you are content now? I know you love your golf, the wildlife stuff in South Africa. You love all that still?
KEVIN: Nothing has changed. I am just spraying it a bit off the driving range and it is causing me a bit of a headache! But I’m going to go and find some help.
England coach Brendon McCullum has instilled an exciting and attacking philosophy
Pietersen wants to be wrong in his prediction that Australia will clinch the Ashes urn
NASSER: Last question, and it’s the worst question – what is your Ashes prediction?
KEVIN: Crikey, man. I gave one last week (before the first Test) actually. I said I think Australia have a very good chance to win this Ashes, just because of England’s one, two and three. And Ben, stop those declarations please! When you have the Aussies on the throat, just (slams his foot on the floor). You’ve got to, you’ve got to, because they’ll never do it to you.
But I hope I am wrong. Heart, absolutely I want England to win. We’ve had some of the best times ever and I want this young England team to flourish. And I love Baz and I think Ben is a wonderful guy, so I do.
But please, just give me some more ammo to make sure that my head saying Australia are probably going to pip this is wrong, because I want to be wrong.
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